That's it. Looking at this and that, it seems to me that the B/X Elf gets hosed; even if we account for the extra abilities, it seems like the xp/lvl costs are close to twice what they should be. If any one has a solid explanation for this I'd love to hear it. SW WB is even more skewed, btw, but Holmes seems to be more in line with my thinking- unless I'm reading him wrong. I don't have access to the LBB's but talk about that stuff all you want in the comments.
This all has relevance to the stupid game I'm writing for the stupid setting I've already created.
Thanks.
Decent saves + racial abilities + Fighter attacks + wizard casting + cast spells in armour = "you advance once in a blue moon, Mr OneManParty".
ReplyDeleteB/X elf XP requirements aren't actually as bad as they seem at first glance. The raw numbers look more punitive on paper than they are in play. Pointy Ears averages out around one level behind dedicated Fighters or MUs with a similar XP score. A fair trade off for such versatility IMO.
The S&W "fighter ~or~ wizard, choose wisely" requirement is just harsh.
(could you cut the Gordian Knot and "no elves" it, or are they necessary to the integrity of your creative vision?)
All I know is that the elves in my Wednesday night group kick seven shades of ass and I don't need them advancing any faster.
ReplyDeleteOh, there are not any 'elves' in the Metal Earth at all, but there are Humans that have lived a very, very long time. The are the Endless, and have memory issues, so that very 10k years or so they more or less forget themselves and start all over- making them suitable PC choices.
ReplyDeleteYep that's right I'm going to make Humans a racial class. As I said, stupid game.
Thanks to you both, I get it now. Jeff, I'll be using the Holmes rules for scrolls or something very much like them.
ReplyDeleteChris pretty much explained it. I'm with Jeff; elves in my B/X games are pretty damn impressive, and need the advancement brake so they don't dominate.
ReplyDeleteBack in the day when we played 'D&D' before all of that 'Advanced' business, elves were the shiznit for all of the reasons explained above. One of the best reasons to play an elf was that you got to use magic wands AND magic swords and armor... so you could whip out your wand of fireballs, pew-pew-pew... shoot off a couple of fireballs and then pull out the magic sword and chop any survivor's heads off, then cast 'detect magic' on all of their shit and grab all of the magic stuff for yourself... all while wearing your +2 magic platemail... AND you could carry a magic shield while doing all of this because you didn't need your left hand to carry a lamp or torch.
ReplyDeleteThe people who got hosed were the ones who wanted to play hobbits.
As well they should.
ReplyDeleteAlso, because of the onerous amount of XP you need to collect to go up a level, the elf class is ideal for one-shots or really short campaigns. Just throwing that out there.
ReplyDeleteRacism.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see you're still out there, bud.
ReplyDeleteChris is on the money. What he said.
ReplyDeleteThe elf class almost obsoletes the wizard; he's got better HP, AC and weapons. All the things that the wizard trades away to get spells. Plus darkvision...and a super long lifespan.
Offhand I don't think there's anything the wizard does better except the XP chart and the level cap. House rules can easily give the wizard the shaft: one shot game? pick elf instead. characters retire at level 10? elf is the way to be. no level caps? advantage: elf.
If you used the requirements you suggest, half the XP, elves would advance faster than magic-users despite having all the advantages and none of the disadvantages and at the speed as the fighter, all of whose abilities they have.
ReplyDeleteAs everyone above has pointed out, that's why. The Elf is a full bore fighter/magic-user and thus advanced at just under the speed of the two combined.
I'm totally down with that. However, I'm also considering that the MU might be getting the shaft as far as XP requirements- even if you don't adjust the elf. Erin from the Welsh Piper mentions it in his Perfect Character class write up, which is on the OSR links to wisdom (I can't figure out how to link it here). Anyway, I'm just thinking. Right now my instinct is to leave everything pretty much as it is, or at least use what exists as my baseline, while I'm making my own classes, which is really what this is all about. I'm trying to get the math somewhat consistent.
ReplyDeleteNothing to add to the content here, just stopping by to say I'm glad to find you. Nice blog.
ReplyDeleteLooking over the comments, I'm surprised no one has crunched the numbers...
ReplyDelete